MAINE, USA — It was another busy week in politics. Our analysts talk about the presidential immunity case involving former President Donald Trump, a worker rights bill veto, and a tough decision for Governor Janet Mills on whether to remove a county sheriff from office.
Presidential immunity
The U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments this week in a case surrounding presidential immunity and former President Donald Trump. The case is related to Trump's indictment for alleged interference in the 2020 election.
ZACH: "Cathy, this is a conservative court. Do you expect them to rule in favor of the former president?"
CATHY: "Well conservative or not, I think these cases are a real test of our fundamental justice system about whether anybody in our system is above the law. I was a little surprised to hear a conservative justice say, gosh, you know, the the presidency is really hard. They have to make tough decisions and quick decisions. And they they might not necessarily have all the facts that they're, you know, almost like, oh, it's so hard. They might not have to follow the law, which was just stunning to me. So I think that we will see. You know, the other thing is I want to point out is that on the issue of electoral interference, you know, the president, that is not an official act. The president has nothing to do with tallying and registering Electoral College votes in Congress. So to the extent that he was involved, moved in, in trying to and he inserted himself in that process, that was not part of his duties."
GARRETT: "I mean, I think that the take that I have on it is when you listen to the oral arguments and you heard what the justices were asking, they're asking the question far beyond what this case is actually talking about. They're talking about how can a president be held responsible for his official acts as president? And that is an important question to answer overall. You know, could could Barack Obama be held accountable for, you know, drowning people in other countries? Could George W Bush be responsible for going into Iraq on, quote unquote, false premises? So it's an important and shockingly, we've never really had to answer this question before in the 200 plus years we've been in a country. So I think it's a very important case far beyond the Trump issue."
ZACH: "Genius, There are a lot of issues that matter to voters come November. Is all of this overshadowing those issues?"
GENIUS: "I think for some people, yes, because this is what is coming at us via the news, the media. What we're talking about right now. Right. And that tends to kind of ring in your mind and to get revisited throughout the day and in conversations. So I do think it's a bit a bit overshadowing with some of the issues that really do matter. But I have to agree here that this is such a large question. I mean, I think I know that the president, to be highly effective, does not need complete immunity to want to say that out loud. But I also think that answering that larger question, it's about time, apparently. So to be better moving forward, we have to get through this."
Farm rights veto
With the legislative session in the rearview, we saw bills signed and vetoed by Gov. Janet Mills this week. One that's causing a lot of controversy is a farmworkers rights bill that was introduced by the governor herself. It would have extended Maine's minimum wage to farmworkers, among other things. The catch: an amendment to allow workers to essentially sue their employers.
ZACH: "Cathy, was this the right move by the governor?"
CATHY: "Well, first of all, I just want to say that, you know, the fact that agricultural workers and domestic workers have never had the same sort of protections as other workers is a direct result of slavery and racism. And you know that those two workforces have been at the bottom of the heap of labor rights and entitlements for hundreds of years. So I'm glad that finally this issue is being is made it to the forefront and that a bill passed. I'm really disappointed that Governor Mills vetoed it. I do think that, you know, in her veto message, she said there's just no way farmers could ever afford to defend themselves in court. I don't know why they're, you know, distinct from any other set of employers who would have to defend themselves. So I'm glad to see that the bill passed by the legislature. But I was disappointed in the governor's veto."
ZACH: "Garrett, there are some are wondering why the governor didn't just work to get that amendment changed while it was being debated."
GARRETT: "Well, she did. And she says that in the veto letter, you know, this is a point where everybody get ready for it. I completely agree with Governor Mills on this veto. You know, she did try to work. She did try to you know, the farm workers do have a course of action and that's through the Department of Labor. They can go and make their case. And if they've had wages stolen or there was inappropriate treatment on the job site, the Department of Labor can make a finding. The governor offered to give the Department of Labor the authority to say, 'Yes, you can go sue. This was egregious,' and, you know, take that course of action. But this is the facts.
GENIUS: "I don't know. When it comes to Department of Labor and certain government entities. What happens often when you have black and brown people, migrants, immigrants, is that by throwing them into a governmental system, all of a sudden all of the other biases and issues and language barriers, cultural barriers can mire them down. So I think there's an argument to be made for there's a strength in, let's say, someone who's a farm worker being able to be the genesis of what's going on."
Oxford County sheriff
Now it's up to Mills to decide if Oxford County Sheriff Christopher Wainwright will keep his job. A hearing for Wainwright wrapped up this week. He's accused of unethical behavior, including selling forfeited guns and allowing school resources, resource officers with expired certifications to continue to work. Mills is the only person who can remove an elected sheriff from the position. The judge overseeing the process will give a written report, making recommendations to the governor based on the testimony.
ZACH: "Cathy, how do you expect the governor to rule here?"
CATHY: "You know, I don't know what the governor is going to do. But what's striking to me about this situation is this is not the first time we've had sheriffs who have behaved in ways that have brought up ethical issues, I'll put it that way. And the only mechanism the state we have in the state is for the governor to remove that person, even though that sheriff was elected by county voters. That just seems really weird to me. I don't know why county voters don't have a mechanism to. Well, they do. The next time the person comes up for election. But there seems to me there should be something that voters have as a tool to to deal with sheriffs who maybe are acting in a way that voters don't approve of. You know, it just seems weird to me that the only recourse is that the governor removes the person. I mean, how does that not get just inherently political no matter who is in charge?"
ZACH: "Genius, is this a tough position for the governor to be in?"
GENIUS: "It is. It is a tough position because she wants to support the rule of law. She wants to support law enforcement officers. But there is there's also a reality where, I mean, the school SRO, unlicensed or whatever it was, unqualified, whatever it may be, that's one thing. But I heard about kind of selling or trading in weapons, guns from a evidence locker as opposed to, you know, old service guns. And the reason I point this out is that I'll actually reference, I believe it was Ketanji Brown Jackson who said that, you know, in terms of this immunity thing with President Trump and things like that, you know, 'How do we avoid the Oval Office becoming a seat of criminal activity?' Like, talk to me about that. I believe that in America, including in Maine, there are places where there's sheriffs and police officers, I'm sorry, that place is a seat of criminal activity. They don't often get charged. They don't often get talked about. But for me, I think that it's important to not sleep on this, no matter if mistakes were made. Be real and be firm just the way the police are with the folks that they engage. They're very firm and they don't mess around."
GARRETT: "I think I'm going to take a legal approach to this opinion, because it's very interesting, though, as a county commissioner, myself and Androscoggin County, the process is playing out here is has never been done before. And we're talking about that a lot today. The governor actually had to put a executive order out to figure out how she was actually going to go about doing this. And, you know, she she put a former judge in charge of this. It I mean, I think she's trying to figure it out as long as the rest of us. So, you know, Oxford County has had a lot of issues with their sheriff department. It's disappointing to see this happen for I think the second time in a row. But, you know, we'll see what plays out. And I you know, I think the governor is just going to figure it out with the rest of us."
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